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Wednesday, December 9, 2015

1B: Raymond Carver (1938-1988)

Raymond Carver (1938-88) said in a 1977 interview,
 “I am beginning to feel like a cigarette with a body attached to it.”
Photograph by Bob Adelman, Syracuse, New York, 1984.

"A writer ought to speak about things that are important to him. . . . I tend to go back to the time and the people I knew well when I was younger and who made a very strong impression on me . . . . most of the people in my stories are poor and bewildered, that's true. The economy, that's important . . . I don't feel I'm a political writer and yet I've been attacked by right-wing critics in the U.S.A. who blame me for not painting a more smiling picture of America, for not being optimistic enough, for writing stories about the people who don't succeed. But these lives are as valid as those of the go-getters. Yes, I take unemployment, money problems, and marital problems as givens in life. People worry about their rent, their children, their home life. That's basic. That's how 80-90 percent, or God knows how many people live. I write stories about a submerged population, people who don't always have someone to speak for them. I'm sort of a witness, and, besides, that's the life I myself lived for a long time. I don't see myself as a spokesman but as a witness to these lives. I'm a writer."
--Raymond Carver

The above remarks by Carver were taken from an interview he did in spring 1987. For the complete text of this interview and one other with Carver, view this link.


Things to do when you're reading Carver







One:  [Recommended.] Watch the videos, above, about Carver.
Two: [Recommended.] Read the Carver pages at the Poetry Foundation.
Three: [Recommended.Read Carver's interview with the Paris Review, from Summer 1983.
Four: [Recommended]:  Read articles, take your pick, on Carver that are linked at The New York Times.
Five: [Recommended]: Visit The New Yorker's Raymond Carver page.  The magazine has published many of Carver's stories and remembrances of him over the years.

The draft of the story, "Beginners," which became "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love," can be found right hereIt shows Gordon Lish's edits. There is also a brief sample of Lish's edits here.

Lish's edits are an excellent example of the dynamics, or call it the conflict, that exist between writer and editor. See a discussion of Carver's July 8, 1980 letter to Lish, protesting his recent editorial cuts (some as much as 70%) of his collection of stories, What We Talk About When We Talk About Love. Letters from Carver to Lish, including the July 8, 1980 Carver letter to Lish, can be found here.

Now that you are an expert on "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love," I invite you to read "What We Talk About When We Talk About Doughnuts," from The New Yorker,  May 10, 1999.





Raymond Carver, Summer 1969. Photograph by Gordon Lish

Six: The Library of America publishes, as they say, "Authoritative texts of great American writing." They have a page on Carver. They also made a statement on Gordon Lish's editing of "Beginners"/"What We Talk About When We Talk About Love" and a letter, a tortured letter, by Carver with a plea to Lish to return the story more closely to the original. The Library of America's statement and Carver's letter appears here.
Seven:  Find "The Bath" at this site.
Eight: Find an early version of "So Much Water So Close to Home" right here. Please note, however, that this version incorrectly includes a question mark ("?") at the end of the story; it should end with a period.

Redesign of Raymond Carver book covers by Todd Hido

Nine: Carver's stories have inspired a number of films.  They include  Short Cuts by Robert Altman (and a cast of dozens, at least).  Go here to read an interview with filmmaker Altman and poet Tess Gallagher, Carver's widow. Here's Roger Ebert's review of Short Cuts. A list of other Carver-inspired films can be found at IMDB.

Ten: Listen to writer Richard Ford, a close friend of Carver, read Carver's "The Student's Wife."

Eleven: Want to learn more about Carver and his editor, Gordon Lish? Read this from The New York Review of Books.   Thanks to former English 1B student Oshin Edralin, we have a YouTube video to watch about Lish and Carver. Here it is:



Twelve: [Recommended]:  For poetry by Carver go to this site at the Poetry Foundation and click the tab for "Poems, Articles and More." Poetry Soup has a pretty good sample of his poetry, too, as does All Poetry.


Carver described, in a Paris Review interview from the Summer 1983 issue, his writing process and the hard but pleasurable work involved in doing revisions: 

"Much of this work time, understand, is given over to revising and rewriting. There's not much that I like better than to take a story that I've had around the house for a while and work it over again. It's the same with the poems I write. I'm in no hurry to send something off just after I write it, and I sometimes keep it around the house for months doing this or that to it, taking this out and putting that in. It doesn't take that long to do the first draft of the story, that usually happens in one sitting, but it does take a while to do the various versions of the story. I've done as many as twenty or thirty drafts of a story. Never less than ten or twelve drafts."

For The Paris Review's complete interview with Carver, visit this page.

Group work at its finest? Or a staged photo op? From left to right, clockwise: Kary, Elizabeth, Elia, 
Nancy, Sara, and Stephanie, take on Carver's "Fever" at Shatford Library. (June 1, 2011.)

The Carver Gang discussing "What We Talk About When We Talk About Caffeine."
Clockwise, left to right: Stephanie, Tina, Sara, Kary, Brian, Some Guy, Kim and Nancy. June 8, 2011.

In the Paris Review interview, published in the Summer 1983 issue, Carver also discussed the purpose and pleasure of fiction:

"The days are gone, if they were ever with us, when a novel or a play or a book of poems could change people's ideas about the world they live in or even about themselves. Maybe writing fiction about particular kinds of people living particular kinds of lives will allow certain areas of life to be understood a little better than they were understood before. But I'm afraid that's it, at least as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps it's different in poetry. . . . Good fiction is partly a bringing of the news from one world to another. That end is good in and of itself, I think. But changing things through fiction, changing somebody's political affiliation or the political system itself, or saving the whales or the redwood trees, no. Not if these are the kinds of changes you mean. And I don't think it should have to do any of these things, either. It doesn't have to do anything. It just has to be there for the fierce pleasure we take in doing it, and the different kind of pleasure that's taken in reading something that's durable and made to last, as well as beautiful in and of itself. Something that throws off these sparks—a persistent and steady glow, however dim."

For The Paris Review's complete interview with Carver, visit this page.

"I'm not a 'born' poet. I don't know if I'm a 'born' anything except a white American male,Carver said of himself in the Paris Review interview from the Summer 1983 issue. Photograph by Marion Ettlinger for Carver's 1985 poetry collection, Where Water Comes Together With Other Water.

65 comments:

  1. Personally, I would invite Raymond Carver based on the fact that he spent a portion of his life in California; therefore, he would probably be more inclined to support the Los Angeles Lakers.

    --Travis Requena

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  2. Travis,
    It said nothing about the Lakers in the finals.
    --Christopher McCAbe

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  3. Prof. McCabe,

    It was already implied in the directions.

    Travis Requena

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  4. I will invite Carver to the Finals so he can release all his subtle anger and direct his shouts like a drunk towards the missed 3 point shots from Artes.

    Nelson Poliran Jr.
    1B/7

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  5. That's an easy one. I'd send them off to the game together because I don't like sports.

    Courtney Gutierrez
    Eng IB/Mon Wed 12:20-2:05

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  6. I would take Anton Chekhov because I feel that he would attract the most attention, thus giving us a chance to get on the jumbo screen television!

    Paimon Mohammadion
    English 1B Mon/Wed 7 A.M.-9 A.M.

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  7. I would have to say the same thing as Courtney except for the fact that I do enjoy sports, I would just have a hard time picking between the two.
    :)


    Katelynn Johnson

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  9. Why opening game? If it was the game that determines the winner (cough Lakers cough), I will invite Chekhov because “it’s been so long since he's had champagne.”

    Guang
    1B @7:00 M,W

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  10. I would take Raymond Carver as my date!!!! I think I could actually have a conversation with him.
    Sorry Chekhov!!!

    Esmeralda Ramirez
    English 1B Mon./Wed. 7-9

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  11. I would so take Carver,he seems like he has a sense of humor!I am sure we would have a good time watching the LAKERS take down the celtics!!!!!go CARVER

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  12. I would choose Raymond Carver. He would seem like the kind of guy that I could sit at a game, and have a good time talking about the game. But being a baseball fan, I think I could handle going to a Lakers/Celtics game.
    Catherine R. Flores
    English 1B/MW 7 AM

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  13. I would take Carver because he would probably appreciate the experience more than Chekhov. Plus, I can't speak Russian so, unfortunately, that's a big barrier between me & Chekhov.

    Mark
    Eng 1B/12:05

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  14. I would invite Chekhov because it seems like he needed a break from his tough life. I mean, Carver seemed pretty happy from the video; he had a son, divorced, but remarried again. Chekhov had his buddy Tolstoy but that's not the same... Besides, it seemed like Carver was already relaxing too much
    Joanne

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  15. Hands down Carver, he's a drinker and Chekhov is not. Plus Carver knows about the rivalry between the Great Los Angeles Lakers and once ok Celtics.
    Isaias Magana
    English 1B, MW 12:05

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  17. i would take Carver, Anton Chekhov would be an interesting figure to take to attract attention, but Carver would drink out with me and cheer crazy for the Lakers, hopefully not start his addiction again. lol. GO LAKERS!!!

    Victor Flores
    English 1B
    MW 7:40-8:50a

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  18. I would invite Carver because I am unable to speak Russian language and communicate with Chekhov. At least I can talk in English with Carver to communicate when going out.

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  19. Skyler Stritzel-MW

    I would take Carver all the way.He strikes me as the man who would enjoy the game..If I got young Carver there would be one hell of an after party

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  20. Ok, without asking Sean his opinion, I would have to say I would let both the greats go together. I mean how often do two people come back from the dead? Plus they could talk about something a little more important than watching overly priced dudes putting a ball in a metal ring.

    On a side note, wouldn't it be GREAT if the Lakers lost? Come on who's with me? I guess you could call me the 'outsider' on the Lakers are the best team ever camp.

    Jacob
    (Sean's Aide)
    English 1b-noon

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  21. I would bring Anton Chekhov to the NBA finals because I can probably sell the ticket and he has more money.

    Yuki Nakamura MW 12pm

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  22. I would like to see Carver with his Idol(Chekhov)enjoying a nice moment together at the NBA finals. That is what life is all about sharing nice moments with friends!

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  23. I'd go with Carver, 'cause Chekhov's too tall and people would throw hotdogs at us.

    Cesar Castillo
    English 1B MW 12:05

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  24. I would go with Chekhov! I imagine Carver for some reason just being seriously drunk and obnoxious the whole time. I think Chekhov would make a great date he knew how to have fun and could carry an intelligent, interesting conversation that would make the night fun.

    Krystal M.
    English 1B MW 12:05

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  25. I would bring Carver to an NBA game because he can maintain an appealing conversation in this setting and would be more appreciative of the opportunity.

    Ashley Clark
    English 1B MW 7:00

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  26. I would take Carver and Chekhov to Pink's Hot Dogs. There is no better place to get a chili dog than Pink's.

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  27. They both seem like cool enough people to take to a game. I'd take whoever would pay more for their ticket.

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  28. I would have to go to the Laker game with Carver. I really enjoy his stories and maybe we could talk about them during half time...I would be to busy cheering on the team during the game!!

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  29. This is so late, but in response to the first suggestion, taking either Anton Chekhov or Raymond Carver to the game, I'm really not sure. I would love to take them both to the game and hear what they have to say to one another, but I don't have a ticket. But, overall, I would give my tickets to them. First, I'm not interested in sports. Second, I would not know what to even talk to them about during the game.
    -Marylou Aclan
    English 1b
    7am-9am

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  30. I would take them to my favorite restaurant: "La Jamaya" where they would order PUPUSAS, a typical food from El Salvador, best food ever!

    Jackelene
    Alvarado
    Eng. 1B
    7-9am

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  31. Since I'm fascinated by his short stories, I would invite Carver to a Laker game. Like Vanessa mentioned, half time would be best for a discussion. Perhaps I would ask questions about his stories "Where I'm Calling From" or "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love".

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  32. First off, I could never pass up tickets to see a Laker game, second, if I had to choose between Chekhov and Carver I would chose Carver to accompany me because I enjoy his short stories more.

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  33. I too would never pass up a chance to see the Lakers in person, I would take Carver, although he seems to deep to be concerned with with who wins. It may just be an opportunity to find out how he comes up with some of his stories.

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  34. I would invite Raymond Carver to the Staples Center and try to exchange my tickets for two sets of Clippers tickets with better seats. Then, gradually convince him throughout the game that California... is the place to be in America.

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  35. I would take Raymond Carver to the Laker game, because in the video he expressed his joy for just sitting around and enjoying life. Thats pretty much what happens at a Laker game am I right?

    Johnny Hsu
    English 1B
    MW 7-19

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  36. Johnny,

    Yes, you're right, that is what Carver said. But a Laker game? Naaah. Clippers & Blake Griffin would be his choice. Check this out:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gG4W0L41FI

    And do I need to mention the Celtics? I didn't think so.
    --Christopher McCabe

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  37. I like food, so I pick scenario 3.
    I like japanese food, so I may bring them to Sushi Gen located at Little Tokyo.
    From what I know about them, looks like Chekhov will order caviar (not sure if the restaurant have it), and will order Sake.
    Well, I probably shouldn't bring Carver there, sure Sake is not helping his alcoholism.

    ---Ling Kong

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  38. lol send them off together.....its too boring to watch it especially for pro its more fun playing then wataching anwyays lol

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  39. Take them by public transportation: experiencing it is far more of an influence for creating/writing than it would be to watch it all go by through the window of a car.

    Engl. 1B: 7 a.m.

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  40. I would send them both off to the Lakers game together because I am not interested in going anyways. Plus that way they can do things that great writers do together, like discuss literature and poetry.

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  41. I would take them with cars because they had faced poverty sometimes in their lives before and just let them have a nice vacation in LA by taking them with cars.

    Christopher Johana
    Engl 1b: 7am

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  42. I would do #3 since I always enjoy eating :)
    I will bring both of them to The Veggie Grill HAHA! I will not turn them vegetarian (even tho I wanted to), but I want them to eat least one meal--one meal that nothing get to be killed to make our stomachs full.
    By the way Carver has an interesting sentence that he wants to hear questions like "'don't I know you?', not 'who are you going to be when you grow up?'." he seems like he has too much life expectations from people around him.
    having a meal with him, many interesting conversations might get involved.

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  43. There's nothing like experiencing the true Los Angeles than by public transportation. This way Anton and Raymond can see and/or meet the people on the city buses as well as seeing the city.

    Donna Momsen
    English 1B
    MW 7am

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  44. I think that they both would enjoy the public transportation. I don't get the feeling that they are to into materialistic things, such as a car, and would probably enjoy writing about the crazy people they met here in LA.

    Manuel Acero
    English 1B
    MW 7:00am

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  46. I would take them to visit L.A. by public transportation, as they might be inspired by things happening around. Also, I would like to observe how they would interpret thing they see.

    U Ieong Lam
    Eng 1B
    MW 7am

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  47. How about taking the fellows to Mastros steakhouse? Both of the authors seem like meat and potato type of guys. Russians love the heavy rich foods so I would recommend a rib eye with creamed spinach and potatoes for Chekhov. For Carver, some Alaskan king crab legs and a filet mignon. Some bubblies to cheers, vodka on the rocks for Chekhov and perhaps one or two or three bombay tonics for Carver. Perhaps I am hungry and naming off what I want to eat! LOL

    Jennifer Li
    English 1B

    May 26, 2011 8:35 AM

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  48. Tour LA via public transportation! Definitely. That way they are able to view the true LA. Although maybe in that case it would be essential to have then get stuck in LA traffic!
    Id also consider taking them to the Art Walk in LA, a lot of inspiration can be pulled from there!

    Elizabeth Hanna
    1B 7am

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  49. I would go with Chekhov. Carver seems creepy to me. I like doctors better anyway.

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  50. Hi professor!

    I wasn't able to make it to your office hours this week, but I wanted to clarify some things for the final.
    I wanted to reassure that the prompt for the final will be different from the questions analyzing the stories posted on the blog, correct? and also, if we were allowed to bring in our analysis of the stories on the day of the final?

    Thank you :)

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  51. Ariana,
    The prompt will be similar to what appears above, the A-D questions. Study those. That will be the best preparation. You can bring in notes and your book and you will be allowed to look at them for about 10 mins. after you get the essay prompt. Then you will have to put your book and notes away.

    --Christopher McCabe

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  52. What type of environment is the narrator calling from? -Jessie Choi

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  53. Group: Timothy, Layal, Adrian, Sean

    Questions for "Where I'm Calling From"

    1. What's the significance of Jack London and "To build a fire" short story?

    2. Do you thin Roxy left the boyfriend when she went to visit JP at Frank Martin's?

    3. What is the significance of the landlord seeing the narrator naked?

    4. At the top of page 283 the narrator says "he wanted to be a chimney sweep". Why do you think he made that comment?

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  54. Nidia Ornelas: why was he battling between calling his ex-wife and girlfriend at the end of the story?
    Travis Farwell: what is the significance of the J.P story of being stuck at the bottom of the well?
    Kin Lun Fung: does the narrator feel frustrated when he cannot reach his ex-wife to talk and share his situation?

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  55. Why does JP say "This has never happened to me before?" (278)
    -Mayra Sandoval
    Why does JP feel like a bug around Frank Martin? -Vicki Vonh
    -Why does the narrator get so interested in Roxy when she comes to do the chimney sweep?
    -What kind of environment is the narrator calling from? (Symbolically) -Jessie Choi

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  56. RE: Carver's "Where I'm Calling From"

    Michelle S- " JP had his life set in his mid-twenties, Why would he jeopardize that with abusing alcohol?"

    Deanna- "Why does he think of calling his girlfriend first, instead of his wife?"

    Hue- "Why does Frank Martin, suggest to the men to read ' The Call of The Wild'?"

    Michelle R- " If his girlfriend did not have a mouthy son, and the situation with his wide was good, who would he prefer to stay with?"

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  57. Why is the Dr described in detail from the late story whereas in the late story the Dr is not described?

    Why does the early story end with the phone call whereas in the late story the ending involves Howard and Ann talking to the Baker at his shop?

    How is the word "warm" significant in this story? (warm in the bakery, warm and sweet cinnamon rolls)

    Did the Baker's story of loneliness help Howard and Ann appreciate the time they had with Scotty instead of his passing?

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  58. Group 2

    1. Why didn't the father know anything about the cake?

    2. Why did the authir decided to bring Franklin's family into the story?

    3. Why does the baker continue calling?

    4. How come Scotty's parent break down so easily when their son is hospitalized?

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  59. Group: Timothy, Layal, Sean, Esmeralda, Adrian

    Questions for "A small, good thing"

    Comparison of the early and late version questions.

    1. Why does the shorter version end where it ends versus the longer version.

    2. In the early version, the boy being rushed to the hospital didn't show s much emotion. Why?

    Later story questions.

    1. What is the role of Franklin's family and why did they appear in the story?

    2. What may have happened if the Baker didn't find out that Anne's and Howard's soon had died?

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  60. "A Small, Good Thing"
    Group 1: Viviana, Nidia, Amber, Kin Fung, Travis, Edwin

    Early questions-
    Why does the baker sound like a stalker when he calls the second time and says "yes it's about Scotty" and then hangs up on the mom instead of telling the mom about the cake ?
    -why do you think the story left out important details and just kept the story straight forward?
    Late questions:
    - why did he change the title Dom "Bath" to "A Small Good Thing?
    -why would the hot rolls be a representation of "A Small good thing?"

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  61. from English 1B students, 4/6/15
    "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love" questions

    1. How can you know what love is if it is different for each person or couple in the story?
    2. Was Ed’s love true to Terri? Explain. Why does Terri insist that Ed loved her when he treats her bad enough to kill her?
    3. What couple seems to know more about love? Explain.
    4. What is the significance of the old married couple?
    5. Is there any connection between the drinking at Mel’s table and the accident the young man caused who was intoxicated? Explain.
    6. What is the importance of the reference to the knight and vassal/vessel to the story?
    7. Based on the evidence of the story why would Mel (or anyone) claim that one can be in love with a person at one time, then despise them later?
    8. What is the significance of the final lines of the story?

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  62. Is draft for turn in due 15th the rough or final draft?

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